Curse

Brett Kuntz · Mar 14, 2005, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

Hah, Hammer Warriors.

Well, considering Hammer skills suck while Swords have many good bonus damage skills, and can use a focus for more energy, no wonder people pick Swords.

Triple digits on default attack? Hardly. 59.4 max, and 37.8 average.

No, hammers hit into the 100's on reg attacks, try using a hammer before commenting on it. 36 base damage plus 15% more damage (very easy to get dmg modifiers on hammers) plus 20% customization plus pierce bonus. Low armour targets have 40-60 AL and will get hit for over 100 damage on default swings. It's happened all to many times in PvP on my W/E and the rest of my guilds hammer wars. Using skills you can hit 130+ damage on elem's and monk's.

Saying sword skills are better then hammer skills is halarious. You need to use skills to hit 50~ damage. A hammer hit's 100 damage without any skills. Saying conditions like 'bleed' are better the chain combo's knockdowns is a joke. With ES you can keep a packed group of enemy wars knocked down indefinitely with good team work, which is just how we do things.

Just because people don't know how to use a class properly doesn't make it weak, or suck.

nicosharp · Mar 14, 2005, 08:57 PM // 20:57

I am not buying all these sword advocates here. Ive used all 3 weapons as a warrior, and by far, hammer does the most damage. In the heat of battle, not often are you standing still and beating on your target. That is what makes the hammer nice. The few hits you do land, will do tremendous damage. With skills to back it causing knockdown and increased damage, you will have a dead target faster than chasing with a sword.

In PvE sword is amazing.. For speed and multiple targets standing in front of you it is the best. PvP players going sword sometimes can be a pain, but when I see a hammer, I pray that we can hex condition and pacify that warrior as soon as possible.

The lonely axe.... Well, axe got a cleave nerf and barely anyone uses it now. It has a higher max base damage than a sword, but the average damage is inconsistant. For example: sword damage varies from 13-23 whereas axe damage is from 5-28. Deep-wound and interrupts are the only benefits here.

Just my take on the weapons I have used. Small chunks of damage are easier to heal, whereas large chunks force monks to heal for more, and waste more energy, another reason why I prefer Hammer. Also Condition healing is pretty common now, so sword conditions wont always be as effective as hammer knockdowns in PvP.

Nash · Mar 14, 2005, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunt0r

36 base damage plus 15% more damage (very easy to get dmg modifiers on hammers) plus 20% customization plus pierce bonus. Low armour targets have 40-60 AL and will get hit for over 100 damage on default swings.

36 base damage? 35 max.
40 AL? Noone has 40 AL.
+15% damage? 66.82 on a critical hit.
Pierce bonus? What pierce bonus?

Regardless of your rabid defense of them, Hammers have crap skills and a meagre 2.63 more DPS.

Dovi the Monk · Mar 14, 2005, 09:57 PM // 21:57

hve u ever even given hammer a chance

it truly is a very beautiful one on one weapon, i mean your little sword warrior will hardly be able to attack, a skilled hammer warrior will be knocking u down a lot, counting all the kncokdown skills a hammer can use there are huge amount, the sword warrior is just that, good at going from target to target crippling, bleeding, and gashin. once put against a hammer warrior head to head ud go down pretty fast, dont forget kncokdowns are interupts to, with stone gauntlets who wouldnt be afraid...

torry · Mar 14, 2005, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackArrow

I don't use any skills from Strength(yet) but the armor penetratoin and ability to use a shield with Strength beats Tactics anyday.

Man...that armour penetration bonus is less than 1 DPS consistantly.
You are aware that your 10% armour penetration bonus is only applied on your skill attacks, NOT on your regular attacks ? ...So if your Galrath Slash does like 30 damage, you get 3 damage extra from your 10 Strength points. Not much is it? ..

What is so special with a STR shield compared to a Tactics shield? I never used a STR shield so I would not know. Sorry. Most of the shields are Tactics in the BWE? Did I miss something? I hear there is a rare STR tower shield which supposedly makes a difference? No idea.

I totally agree that you go Str if you want to access particular STR skills, but otherwise? How can it have any value?

Kuntor, you got a point on the armour spells. But why not just take the 20AL shout instead. It wont cost you 50% of your movement rate. OR SHIELD STANCE. It wont work on spells though. But take away 75% of the melee damage. Slows you a bit though. I am not so sure I would like to be at "crippled" movement to get the bonus of Armour of Earth? You are also assuming W/E to access those spells.

I am totally going Victory is Mine and 10 tactics. I am forsaking say 1 DPS in armour penetration bonus, but so what, none of the STR attrribute skills are my choice anyway. Why on earth should I put in 50+ attribute points in Str to get 1 DPS?

Putting 10 tactics instead will heal me for close to 800 HP?? per minute for FREE. I wont even bother to check my HP, I am doing ViM for the mana. 800 hp is like one Orison with DF bonus every 7-8 seconds. And its a free, secondary effect, for pete's sake. And ViM is giving me, with 4 conditions going, 15 netx4 cycles = 60 mana net extra per minute. You just can't beat that. Thats a friggin total 5 arrows of mana regeneration (3 from ViM).

You are correct that a primary Monk heals like nobody else Nash, but a heavy W/E tank with Vim will do up toward 700 dam/15 seconds with Immolate, less than that thereafter (dont think he gets off 2 immolates, I dont know, per 15 secs, got to try it this weekend, if I get a chance)), and at the same time be trigging 2 Orison equivalents per cycle of 15 seconds on himself.

Monks are vulnerable. Any secondary healing source, like in this case, which is not the true purpose of the skill, but a secondary effect, or a free effect, like Healing Signet, are not worthless. They add to the overall surviveability of the team, specially at my level of play where there is little coherency in team and guildplay.

And you are throwing that away to get like 1 DPS extra, BlackArrow? (you got no STR skills you say). Nevermind, we all got our choices going here. Good luck :-)

Brett Kuntz · Mar 14, 2005, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

36 base damage? 35 max.
40 AL? Noone has 40 AL.
+15% damage? 66.82 on a critical hit.
Pierce bonus? What pierce bonus?

Regardless of your rabid defense of them, Hammers have crap skills and a meagre 2.63 more DPS.

***Regular Hit Alert***

35 + 35% * 2 = 94.5 dmg
Elem 50 AL = 148 dmg

35% = 20% cust + 15% dmg modifier on nice hamemr which are easy to obtain. Even on crappier hammers that only have 7% or whatever dmg modifier, you're still hitting really high dmg into the 100's. Oh and 12 str gives 12% pierce, which means 50 AL elems actually only have 44 AL (31.95079% more dmg). Even with only 10% dmg modifier, you're still hitting 120's. Even with no dmg modifier, you're still hitting 111 damamge. Yes thats right, a default hammer on a default swing can hit up to 111 dmg on a fully armoured Elem baring no additional AL skills/items on that player.

Arguing hammer dmg is useless, it's apparent you haven't used a hammer before, or had one used against you. Any Monk, myself included, will tell you hammer warriors do so much dmg it's the only class worth running from. Any pure hammer warrior, myself included, will tell you how badly you slap someone. Weapon speed doesn't matter, I can barely tell the difference between them. When you're chasing targets, which as a hammer warrior is all you're going to do, because no one will stand still and let you hit them for triple digit damage, the odd hit you land every 5~ seconds has to count, and frankly the 20~ dmg from a sword is laughable. On my Monk I love it when 1-2 sword wars are on me, they're dmg is so low HH heals me to full, and in Tombs they're always the last class targeted because they don't actually do anything other then be the hardest to kill and annoy people every so often.

PvP isn't this formula you can calculate, targets don't stand still and let you hit them. On a sword warrior, landing one hit or one skill every 5 seconds on a running target will produce no effectiveness against killing this player. A sword warriors only goal is to stand still and defend against enemies dumb enough to attack someone who's going to stand still and defend.

Nash · Mar 14, 2005, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Too bad your calculations are bogus, and you base it on non-existant armor levels and apply Strength to normal attacks.

Brett Kuntz · Mar 14, 2005, 10:47 PM // 22:47

50AL isn't Elem's best armour? Then post some screen's of what it is. You also forget everyone runs, and hitting from behind is even more damage.

Even removing the 12% armour pierce they still hit triple digits. Even so, explain why all the hammer warriors in my guild, including myself, hit this damage? Are we magical and have magical damage that only we get? Maybe this weekend I'll get us to take screenshots of us busting 100's on lower armour casting class's, 130's ect using adrenalin skills that increase damage and what have you.

BBB · Mar 14, 2005, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Wow... and they said this forum was for the smart people...

Nash · Mar 14, 2005, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Here's for you to read so you can stop making baseless statements:
http://paladins.viperhosting.net/?p=stuff&s=profs
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...nics-id674.php
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/strength-id40.php

BBB · Mar 14, 2005, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Kunty, i only start hitting 100+'s when i hit up Judges Insight so theres no way on earth you can hit 148 with normal attacks. And yes i hav eplayed hammer, i only play hammer so i do know what i'm talking about.

Ice Spear hits 148 tho.

Brett Kuntz · Mar 14, 2005, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

Here's for you to read so you can stop making baseless statements:
http://paladins.viperhosting.net/?p=stuff&s=profs
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...nics-id674.php
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/strength-id40.php

Quote:

Originally Posted by nash

Well, considering Hammer skills suck...

Way to base the statement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nash

59.4 max

Those same links thus prove 59.4 wrong?!

Nash · Mar 14, 2005, 11:05 PM // 23:05

No, they don't.

Brett Kuntz · Mar 14, 2005, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Post it then?

Nash · Mar 14, 2005, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Customized ideal hammer, critical hit: 59.4 damage.
Try yourself: http://paladins.viperhosting.net/?p=stuff&s=speed
Enter 100% criticals and look at the average hit damage.

Ensign · Mar 14, 2005, 11:10 PM // 23:10

This thread died when kunt0r started making up numbers. Topic locked.